Beyond Delivery
Beyond Delivery is a podcast about the changing world of outsourcing and technology services. As companies face increasing pressure to innovate faster, leaders in IT, product, and operations must rethink how they scale, collaborate, and deliver value. Each episode features conversations with industry experts and business leaders who experience these transformations first-hand, unpacking how outsourcing, nearshoring, delivery models, and AI adoption can become powerful catalysts for sustainable growth.
Beyond Delivery
The cheap service trap and why low rates can be your most expensive mistake
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How do Scandinavian companies actually evaluate nearshore partners today – and what is changing in their expectations? In this episode Sebastian speaks with Erik Wärn, Business Area Manager at Nexer, working closely with international entities and clients across the Nordics.
They discuss trust, transparency and long-term collaboration, as well as the shift from traditional time-and-material resourcing towards outcome-based partnerships. Erik also explains why domain knowledge, industry expertise and genuine business understanding are now becoming decisive factors for Scandinavian clients choosing vendors in Central Europe.
This episode covers:
• What non-negotiables Scandinavian clients expect from partners
• Why transparency, flat hierarchy and cultural fit matter so much
• How nearshore delivery matured from coding capacity to advisory roles
• Why Central Europe is viewed as high-quality rather than low-cost
• How outcome-based and value-driven models are changing cooperation
• Why domain expertise and specialisation are now strategic differentiators
• Where misconceptions about “cheap delivery” still remain – and how to counter them
⏱ Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction
01:43 – Transparency and stability as non-negotiables for Scandinavian clients
05:43 – The market trend of moving away from time-based materials toward outcome-based models
07:29 – Building engagement by removing communication filters between teams and clients
08:58 – Why domain knowledge and understanding the business are more important than the tech stack
17:39 – The "cheap service" trap and why focusing only on lower rates can be expensive
🎙 Guest:
Erik Wärn Business Area Manager at Nexer Group LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-w%C3%A4rn-2011747/
🎙Host:
Sebastian Dzieniak LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sebastian-dzieniak/
This is a quite tricky question. Every customer is unique from that aspect. But definitely more and more customers they would like to have an outcome-based model. You can clearly see that there is a trend in the market moving away from time and material. Our clients are looking for a long-term partnership.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Beyond Delivery by Holistic Connect, where tech meets true business value. I'm Sebastian from Holistic Connect. And today with me is Eric Vann, the business area manager working with international entities for the Nexer group. And today we'd like to talk about the Scandinavian perspective on the international collaborations with the Nexer and the clients. So hello, Eric. Thank you for joining me today. Hi Sebastian, and thank you for having me. Yes, my pleasure. Yeah, it's it's quite interesting to hear your perspective on working with the Polish and um Czech entities of Nexer. And yeah, that's what we are going to focus on today. So shall we fire off? Yes, please. Please go ahead. Okay, so looking at the expectations uh of clients and their perspective. So from your work with the Scandinavian clients, what are the non-negotiables uh they expect in in the outsourcing partner in Central Europe?
SPEAKER_00I I I think there's no difference between Central Europe or or anywhere else. But what they do prefer and and what they they are demanding is they want full transparency, uh, they want a reliable and stable uh partner because two parties make an investment into a relationship, so so it is for for for long term. And then, of course, the the cultural fit is is of importance. Uh, and maybe the last thing is uh no hidden costs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think that's not only in Scandinavia but everywhere, it's always something that can really affect the relationship, right? Yes, yeah, and I've noticed that in my conversations with executives from Scandinavia that transparency and the flat hierarchy, um, long-term partnerships are things that are quite crucial when it comes to building long-lasting relationships. Looking at these values, the ones that I mentioned just now, how do they change the way you approach the vendor relationships? Does it have any influence in your opinion?
SPEAKER_00Yes, it does. And I think we always try to work with uh openness. We strive for having a very clear responsibility uh between us and and rather have a dialogue uh than a strict customer and and service provider relationship. So a lot of common sense. And then to to base your your decisions on on facts and knowledge and and not hierarchy. Uh it's uh Scandinavia is very consensus-driven.
SPEAKER_01I like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Trying to do do business with with an open mindset.
SPEAKER_01I really like that approach. I remember when I first came to Sweden and I was actually approached by the CEO and just have a natural conversation being treated equally. I I found it really nice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but so I I think sometimes there is a lack of decisions. Maybe that's the price we have to pay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it can slow things down, slow things down, I suppose. Always have to find the balance. Can you maybe think of any examples where the client has challenged you, asks you to do something differently, what was in the backlog, and how it changed the the outcomes?
SPEAKER_00Uh maybe not a concrete example, uh, but we always try to be very uh proactive and and also try to point out uh when we see that there's something that could be improved or done in a different way. So so maybe that's uh uh when we are challenging the the clients instead.
SPEAKER_01I think that's an interesting approach, and um yeah, since we have the experience of working with different clients across different industries, we are in the space where we can challenge the client and the status quo, and the outcome can be you know even more satisfactory for the client. So I think it's the right to go, of course, within the boundaries of being reasonable. I wanted to move to the next section, so to say, and that's more about uh the evolution, how um the new shoring partners are are portrayed. So from like the code factory to strategic innovation hubs. And my question would be uh whether you have seen any change in the expectations in the recent years. Uh, how are clients, are they still just asking for developers or are they more focused on the end-to-end projects, thinking about you know strategy and delivering like full projects rather than just uh people for hours, so to speak?
SPEAKER_00You can clearly see that there is a trend in the market uh moving away from time and material. Our clients they are looking for a long-term partnership, uh, and and they are getting more and more mature in buying these kinds of services, but it's still a bit reluctant to let go of the responsibility. Many clients they they would like to hand over the responsibility of of sort of product development, but they constantly want to have full insight into what's being done. So it's a sort of a hybrid, uh, but definitely a move away from just delivering hours.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's what you mentioned about the dialogue, right? It's important to keep constant communication with the client, and it's not just one way giving the directions or expectations and then delivering. It's it's a constant communication and exchange of yeah, the project status um and yeah, the information about the the project overall.
SPEAKER_00We can also see that there's uh the the market is they are aware of that the the sort of the Central Europe deliveries, they come with a high quality. So I would say it's easier to do this kind of business with a nearshore aspect rather than an offshore aspect.
SPEAKER_01And would you say it's only like the cost um that is the major driver for these vendors?
Building engagement by removing communication filters between teams and clients
SPEAKER_00That's always of importance. From time to time, it's it's the most important thing. Uh but in stronger economical times, it's it's more about finding the capacity and the know-how.
SPEAKER_01Have you made any internal changes to the internal, let's say, vendor ecosystem to move from being seen like the code factories to more strategic innovation hubs when it comes to like delivery hubs in in Poland and Czechia?
SPEAKER_00Maybe that's a natural development, but what we are trying to do is to involve everyone who is in part of a project or a service. I want them to be in direct contact with the client. That's how we also build uh more engagement and and pride of the work. And it it also, I think it develops both the the business and and the people. So so no uh no filters. At least that's my my perception. Maybe it's not valid for all the clients, but but I see that's a successful way of going forward.
SPEAKER_01No filters as in like full transparency, right? Like in honesty.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and unless hierarchy to talk to the the source directly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you can see those values really speak through you, yeah, and and it reflects in in everyday work, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it it it does. Uh, and uh I think it it's good to to work with open-minded people willing to learn and willing to learn out of mistakes as well.
Why domain knowledge and understanding the business are more important than the tech stack
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's too late to go. I also believe that. So I think maybe that's why the collaboration between Poland and Sweden is going so well. Okay, and since we focus on certain industries like pharma, um, life sciences, overall, uh telecom, automotive. How important is that domain knowledge uh when it comes to evaluation of the vendors within the Scandinavian clients?
SPEAKER_00I I would say that's uh super important. Our clients and potential clients, they they want someone who understands their business and not just the technology stack. Then you can go with rent decoder. They want someone that's that's uh that can challenge and and bring valuable experience from from the industry from from other projects. So so becoming more and more important.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And I think that's what can uh differentiate the the vendors within, let's say, the Central Europe among the competition.
SPEAKER_00And one of our core strategies is specialization. So we see that that's that's a very efficient way of running the business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and some of my conversations came out that uh it's not only the cost that we mentioned, that also the talent pool um that we have. Uh, for example, in Poland. Um, the demand is there, Scandinavia, but the talent is simply short. So yeah, Poland is a great place to sort of get access to that talent. Moving on to the next uh section. We are looking at the vendor adaptation and differentiation, and and what would be the value-driven or outcome-based models you have seen clients push for? And how have you responded?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is a uh this is a quite tricky question. Uh every every customer is unique from that aspect. Uh, but definitely more and more customers they would like to have an outcome-based model, KPI-based. And and if possible, linked to the the business result, which is difficult for us because we need to trust our clients that we are doing things that is developing their business. But we are trying to have very clear goals in between us and and also try to work uh data-driven. So we see that we are improving things and improving areas that's been uh pointed out as important for the client. So definitely more and more of outcome-based.
SPEAKER_01And are there any cultural or operational practices that vendors uh are adopting to better sync with the Scandinavian expectations?
SPEAKER_00I I don't think it in general, I think that's up to each and every individual. But when you work with a certain culture for a time, you you realize okay, this is the way that they prefer to to work. So I I think it's it's based on experience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's the same for me personally. Working for Nexerf, I also had to learn how to basically deal with different cultures. And um I like it personally. Uh I like different cultures, I like and I always respect the the different approach, uh, you could say. So it's it's quite quite fun.
SPEAKER_00Many Swedes think that the rest of the world is working just like in Sweden. So it could be uh an experience and a learning from the other side as well. Perhaps it's it's everywhere, you know.
SPEAKER_01We we often assume that the world functions the way we do, but uh then we learn that it's uh completely different, and then we experience what they call a cultural shock. In what ways has the language, the tooling, or agile ways of working evolved among your teams to better fit the cross-border collaboration?
SPEAKER_00Coming back to what I mentioned earlier, to to involve as many people as possible, and not just communicating by by uh emails or or in tickets, uh trying to add a lot of video calls or Teams meetings, uh, so you actually can get the nuances from from what's trying to be said. It's it's quite difficult to run a project uh only by text. So so again, uh having people talk to each other, I think that's one of the key key factors.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it makes sense. And I think we all had to adapt after the COVID-19. Yes. And that was definitely a strong driver to to moving to remote um culture and working remotely and and respecting that cultural aspect as well. Yeah, and and and be curious, yeah, exactly. Like curious about the other person as well, yeah, like um how how do they work, how how the project is going, how they feel. So all these things um make a difference when when you actually talk face to face or on the call. Okay, and um when it comes to the KPIs, uh sounds maybe sounds boring, I hope not, but are there any metrics that uh resonate with the Scandinavian uh buyers when evaluating outsourcing partners?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh budget is is of importance, maybe not maybe not the best KPI, but uh delivery quality uh is always the the key. And then uh in in what way you can measure, but but becoming uh predictable. So predict predictability is of importance, uh proactivity, and and again coming back to to the what what's the the value created for the business? So I would say that those are the maybe the most difficult ones, but also the most important ones.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, these are kind of difficult to evaluate prior to starting the collaboration, so uh it was a trick question a little bit as well.
SPEAKER_00But I think everyone should be open to to also change the KPIs down the line, uh because you get what you measure and and you want to create sort of a productive way of working with the KPIs, so be open to to have them replaced or not used at all if they don't bring any value.
SPEAKER_01And do you think it's possible to measure uh the impact of the outsource work on the overall you know product or revenue, uh user satisfaction?
SPEAKER_00User satisfaction is is of course of importance. Uh it's more difficult to get an honest reply from a client regarding sort of increased revenue or reduced costs. But we're trying to we we try to do that. We have a very clear governance model, so we have different forums where we can address different questions. So so and again, if the transparency must not only come from one part, it's it's it's mutual. So it's so we need to know if we are doing something that is good or not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true. And of course, in busy schedules, uh it's hard to navigate uh and get that information from the client, I suppose. But yeah, like you said, it's transparency both ways, not only from us, but also from clients, and it's a it's a two-way uh communication flow. All right, okay, so looking at the best practices for for agile teams or uh distributed teams, um, what structures or rituals have you found work especially well when you have cross-border distributed teams?
SPEAKER_00We usually work according to to Scrum, but also adding coming back to what I mentioned earlier as well, the the personal contacts. So making sure that that people get engaged and and that the people do interact, no, not only in in daily stand-ups, it's important that we we get to know common way of working, especially if if the team is is partly based in in Sweden and partly based in uh in Poland, for instance.
SPEAKER_01And uh out of curiosity, do you have any story that you can share where something went wrong and how how it saw how you solved it?
SPEAKER_00I never admit my mistakes. No, but of course, we we we are humans. Uh we we uh we do mistakes and and uh there is of course a misunderstanding, and and that happens quite frequently. Uh, but I think the most important thing is to to address that at once, to to change it and to learn from it. Uh, but we will continue to do mistakes, otherwise we we do not challenge ourselves.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that's something we learn from. When it comes to uh the challenges and the perceptions, like despite how much the Central European vendors have maturated, matured, sorry, um, where do the misconceptions still remain among the Scandinavian clients and how do we counter them?
SPEAKER_00People still believe that you can go to to uh let's say Poland or Czechia or elsewhere and buy cheap resources. But I think there is now uh insights into that uh it could be very expensive to buy cheap services. We need to get back to talking about the the outcome, the bang for the bucks, the the business result. Uh because if if a client is only looking for a lower rate, they can always find a lower rate, but they will not get what they ask for.
SPEAKER_01But that's what you mean by it can be very expensive to buy cheap resources, right? Yes, the project can go sideways.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or or not at all. But at least the that's but at least the resources were cheap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. So that's that's a good example of uh cost being not the only uh factor to say.
SPEAKER_00Also, I I I never talk about resources, I I prefer to talk about people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, at the end we are people, we're all people, and the company is not just a company, it's a group of people. Um, so yeah, exactly. So again, uh we talked about cost. And is there a way that you can elaborate a little bit on how you shift the focus to to value and long-term partnerships when when discussing projects with potential clients and clients?
SPEAKER_00What I try to emphasize is that if we are going to be successful, we need two happy partners or two happy parties. If we are not satisfied both, then it will not work. And and if the pressure is too strong on on let's say the the the cost, then we will try to to cheat. And and that's a mistake. But if if it's not a win-win situation, then then it will not be uh very efficient. So so always trying to explain to this to the clients, but also say that we are willing to invest initially in a long-term relationship. So yes, we we could all cash, but it needs to be a win-win in the long run.
SPEAKER_01Always, yeah, that's the right approach. Looking forward, like how what do you see as the future of near shoring between Scandinavia in in Central Europe in the next five years?
SPEAKER_00I think and and I hope uh that it will be even more of uh finding and building strategic partnerships. It takes time to to get to know each other and and it needs to be uh with a longer time perspective. I think we will see uh companies uh choosing fewer partners. Uh I think they will have a sorry, they will select a few different providers that they will go to. And I think we will see more of requirements on on uh innovation and like business renewal. Uh as you mentioned or asked earlier, it's not just coding, it's about evolving a business together.
SPEAKER_01Right. And do you think things like AI and data strategy sustainability will affect the expectations of clients from Scandinavia?
SPEAKER_00Yes, definitely. I I think they expect us to be already professional professional on AI. You also mentioned sustainability, that will be of greater importance and also in some way resilience now looking into how how the world is is behaving today. But definitely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you for for your input uh and your perspective. One last question. Yep. Um, if a vendor in Central Europe wanted to elevate their offering to be more strategic in the eyes of Scandinavian clients, what are the first two, three things you'd recommend they invest in? That's a million-dollar question.
SPEAKER_00Um domain knowledge. Uh ensure that uh the people understand the client's business. Innovation. We are in a very creative world, so so we should try to come up with our ways of finding new solutions and and and present that and and continue to work. Work active with it. And then uh AI. You can cannot get away from AI. So I think that will be integrated in every kind of offering.
SPEAKER_01Wiseboards. Eric, thank you so much for today, for your perspective and your opinions, and for your time. Yeah, I um wish you a nice day. Thank you for uh for joining. So yeah, thanks so much, Eric. Great, have a good one, and thanks. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening. What's one thing from the episode that made you think? Let us know in the comments and subscribe to the show. It really helps more people discover it. See you next time.